NEW!!! Elk & Vegetable Diet is launching in formal packaging beginning Friday, November 12, 2010.

Farm-raised, naturally lean and a non-common protein option, K-9 Kraving Elk & Vegetable raw diet is a great alternative for canines with protein allergies and/our weight issues.

Due to the heightened cost of raw materials for Buffalo/Bison meat and organ meat, as well as, Organic Turkey Breast meat, K-9 Kraving is currently unable to produce Buffalo, Turkey & Vegetable raw diet and our dried Turkey Breast Strips …without doubling the manufacturing cost.

When cost of these raw materials decrease [reasonably] we will look forward to once again providing availablity.

Q:   Hello there! I have written you before to request a brochure – thank you so much for sending one, along with a treat pouch and 2 canine cookies. My dogs realized before I did that there was not just a brochure in that envelope!

I have a question regarding amounts to feed. Currently I feed K-9Kraving on the weekends for my dogs. The rest of the week they eat a premium grain free kibble supplemented with lots of fresh vegetables and other things like yogurt and fruit.

I understand that feeding guidelines are ‘general’ guidelines to follow – as it is all about monitoring your dogs intake and body condition as they are on a food. Prior to starting K-9Kraving I knew that a general rule of thumb for feeding raw diets for an adult dog is 2-3% body weight per day. I have a 50lb dog and a 45lb dog, both seniors at 11 and 12 years old and in good health.

So if I go the low end at 2% for each dog that would be for a 50lb dog=16oz per day and 45lb dog=14.4 oz per day.

When I look at other frozen raw diets, there is a range:

• Bravo: 50lb dog=16oz per day and 45lb dog=14.4 oz per day – which seems consistent with the above
• Nature’s Variety: 50lb dog=9.3oz per day and 45lb dog=8.7 oz per day

And according to your guidelines, which is not as specific as the range is wide:

• K-9 Kraving: 25-50lb dog=6oz and 50lb= is 1lb daily

Your guidelines cover a large spread in weight and I was wondering could you narrow that range down for me? For example, for a 50lb dog on your food would it be closer to 6oz or 1lb?

With the often stated raw guidelines stating to feed 2-3% body weight per day, how would you respond that your suggested feeding amounts are significantly less?

Also can you provide the approx kcals per lb for each of your complete diets?

My dogs love your food and I will continue to feed it to them, I just would like more information about the food so that I know I am feeding them the right amounts off the bat.

Thanks so much!

- J

 

K-9 Kraving Representative requested:   While we await Dr. Patton’s response to your feeding guideline inquiry, I invite you to click on the following links to read about the caloric details you requested:

• Calories…Airedale
• DVM…Technically Feeding and Speaking
• Recovering Healthy Weight

 

A:   I understand your interest in specific, narrow range guidelines.  Let me use as a working example your lighter weight dog, the one that weighs 45 lbs.  This happens to be very nearly exactly 20 kg, and all the scientific literature discusses energy needs using metric units. For your 50 lb dog, the amounts would be approximately 10% more.

A 45 lb dog needs 1166 calories a day for maintenance.  Feed whatever amount of a diet delivers that level of caloric intake.  Now you can’t get much more narrow a range than that–one number–1166. 

Let me tell you where that number comes from.  (Here comes the lecture. Brace yourself.)  If you go to Small Animal Clinical Nutrition, 4th ed, page 1010, Table D-6, there are listed 8 different alternative ways to calculate the daily maintenance energy requirements for a dog.  For a dog that weight 45 lbs, these eight learned, scientific references are as low as 927 calories, and as high as 1396 calories.  That is a range of 50% and a standard deviation of 153. 

Which one is correct?  The answer is all of them, and none of them.(They average 1166, the source of the number provided above.)  Too many factors are in play to have a chart work except in very broad terms.  The most important factor is temperament of the individual, but also there is the matter of temperature and humidity, age of the dog, sex, reproductive status, social environment, to name a few.

As we’ve said before, the best and most reliable authority is the pet owner.  We balance the nutrients to the energy in a diet.  Only the owner can control caloric intake.  The larger problem is not people like yourself, who seek the best thinking on a topic.  Its the handlers who have an obese dog and when they look at it, don’t see an obese dog.

Hope this helps.  Let us know.

- Dr. Patton

He’s a 45 lb, 9 month old Airedale and I am just trying to work out what the right amount of kibble to feed him. Thanks!

-       Joe

A:  The short answer is 818 kcal/lb, as fed.  A young Airedale needs about a bazillion calories a day, so I suggest buying K9 Kraving–the company, so you can have free dog food. 

Seriously, Airedales can be quite high energy. Some are Jack Russell terriers in a pony size body.  An Airedale pup the age of yours can require up to 5000 kcal a day to maintain proper weight gain. This would require about 5 lbs of a canned, fresh or frozen diet.  Admittedly, this is the exception, but it illustrates an important point: feeding charts are almost useless (although required by the AAFCO) –because so many things vary, including the breed and personality of the pet. 

Your approach sounds prudent: Some K-9 Kraving, some “other protein” and some kibble.  Almost any reasonable blend of these will suffice, as long as you watch your pup’s weight carefully.  The careful eye of the owner is the best feeding guide. Seeing a few ribs as they grow is not a problem.  At all cost, avoid raising a pup that is roly-poly the entire growth period. 

-       Dr. Patton

 

Q: One of my clients has been feeding K-9 Kraving raw diet. Their complaint is that the dog is not gaining weight. We recently weighed the dog and she is a 5 month old German shepherd that weighs 37# and has a BCS 3-4/9. According to the website, up to 50 # the recommended amount of feeding is 1/2 a chub. However, my client is currently feeding her almost 2# of it. He said if they give any more the dog gets diarrhea or “large amount of feces”. I would like to know what the kcal/# are for this food. Also, the Ca: P ratio on a dry matter basis? I would also like to know why all that info is not readily available in the website info.? I’ll appreciate a response ASAP since I have a client who loves her dog awaiting a response too. Thank You.

-       DVM

A: I have prepared the answers to your questions about K-9 Kraving and provide them herewith:

 

Diet                                Calories/lb

Buffalo, Turkey & Vegetable     841

Beef & Vegetable                    700

Chicken & Vegetable                  700

Chicken, Beef & Vegetable       820

Duck & Vegetable                    967

Elk & Vegetable                       720

Mackerel & Vegetable              560

Turkey & Vegetable                 700

 

The Calcium-Phosphorus ratio, on a dry matter basis (as you asked): 1.69:1. 

 

Using the weight (37 lb) and age (5 mos.) of the German shepherd pup you refer to, the calculations of her energy needs for ME is 2300 calories/day. This means she needs to consume from 2 to 4 lbs of the K-9 Kraving diets above, depending on which diet is in hand.

 

Feeding guides are notorious for getting pet food manufacturers into debates with customers.  AAFCO wants them on the label, and we want to comply, but the variation in energy needs from pet to pet is so great that they are bound to confuse some pet owners. 

 

Another approach I use is to aim for a percentage of body weight in dry matter is: 2-2.5% for adults, and 2.5-3.0% for growing dogs.  In the case of your client’s 5 mos. puppy, I would provide 3% of 40 lb, or 1.2 lb of DRY MATTER each day.  This amount of dry matter would be derived from 4 lb of as fed product, assuming a dry matter of 30% (70% moisture).

 

In a former life, I was the nutritionist for Science Diet and Prescription Diet.  We had dozens of Shepherds and I became quite familiar with the breed: they are the very first to have loose stools, especially the puppies.

-       Dr. Patton

Q:  I have been looking into holistic dog foods. One in particular, along with some others, say only one formula is needed for all of life stages.

They recommend adding fresh raw meat and other whole foods to a pet’s daily fare, to maintain proper nutritional balance.

One brand of interest to me, ingredient list is as follows: Lamb meal, chicken meal, brown rice, corn, Naturox, barley, oats, chicken liver digest, dried kelp, dried lactobacullus, acidophilus, fermentation product, montmorilonite clay, diatomaceous earth, yucca schidigera, brewer’s, sea salt, tomato pomace, garlic, potassium chloride, choline chloride, vitamin A acetate, vitamin E supplement, zinc proteinate, iron proteinate, riboflavin, menadione dimethyl, pyrimiinol bisulfite, biotin, niacin, calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, copper protenate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, folic acid, manganous protenate, cobalt proteinate, vitamin B12, sodium selenite.

This brand also states, “The grade of corn other companies use is the allergy problem, not the corn; premium-grade corn is one of the best sources of skin and coat conditioners. Corn is also an excellent source of amylase, a much-needed enzyme for the proper digestion of carbohydrates. Without amylase, much of what animals eat will no longer benefit them and may cause dramatic weight loss. Premium grade corn is also an excellent source of carbohydrates, protein, and fatty acids, which provide additional energy.”

I will be very curious to hear your take on that, since all I have ever heard is that corn is a no-no.

Now, there are others that are grain free, with certain veggies, and fruits, which sound very good. Due to the fact that their digestive system is so short, and designed so different from ours, it only made sense to me that they require more meat, and just a little plant life – where we require more plants, and grains, and less meats.

I’m eager to hear what you have to say and would love to know the %’s of protein, etc. that pups need, adults, and the elderly dog.

-       Tammy

PS – I was impressed that you responded to my email. This is quite important to me.

A:  PART I

I am trying to make a mid March deadline on getting a book manuscript to the publisher in London–on pet nutrition.  It is over 300 pages and the biggest problem has been keeping it from being 600 pages. The point I’m making is that I have a problem with your question: I know too much (or think I do).  I don’t know where to begin eliminating what not to tell you from all the stuff I want you to know. And neither you or I have time for me to drone on for hours. 

Anyway, here goes–The six sentence feeding guide:

• Fresh, raw, animal based protein is best; 
• Nothing at all wrong with vegetables, high fiber ones much preferred;
• Some fruit OK. No grapes;
• Sold by a reputable store, produced by a reputable company, with nutrition backup available.

 (I don’t say that because I’m a nutritionist I say it because it is an important indication a company understands nutrition science can make useful contributions to pet’s health and they can’t know it all themselves.)

• Diet should be balanced for vitamins and minerals.  They don’t have to be added as an ingredient in the formula, but they should be in the pet food because they are included within the ingredients.
• Diet should be low in soluble carbohydrate (very low sugar and starch 6-8% is best).

A: PART II

 

The brand (whose ingredients you so carefully transcribed–I was impressed) seems to have a proper approach to diet formulation.  I don’t know what Naturox is, and it is not allowed to use brand names in an ingredient panel.  I will say that this list of all known vitamins and minerals is not absolutely essential in a well formulated diet.  By that I mean many micronutrients are common place in wholesome ingredients and if not cooked, are bio-available to a pet.  They may not have included these micronutrients to fully meet AAFCO in and of themselves.  They may have augmented the natural, endogenous vitamins and minerals already in the ingredients. 

 

I do not agree that corn is OK to feed to a dog at any level, though what they say about quality may be true. I guess sometimes some bad corn can get into the supply channels, but I do not accept their argument (that corn is OK if pure and theirs is pure) as the reason, or sufficient reason, to include corn in their diet. However, it does not seem that they have used an excessive amount.  It is 4th on the list, which means it is probably about 20% or so, if they are abiding by AAFCO regulations.

 

I am not at all accustomed to considering corn a good source of all those things they boast about.  Yes, corn does contain protein, carbs, and fatty acids, but many other ingredients are higher and better.  The fatty acids are called corn oil, and several plant oils are better nutrition than corn oil.  I have never heard that corn contains amylase. If it does, it must be in-activate, and de-in-activated when it reaches the gut, or else corn would digest itself. I guess it does, if they are right.  I’ll let them go on some of the other things they say that I feel are dubious, but on this one about amylase, I think you had better challenge them to produce proof of what they say. Either they are knowledgeable beyond anyone I ever met, or they are taking half sentences from elsewhere, adding thoughts of their own, and making them into a sales brochure.  Perhaps I have something to learn here; let me know what they say.

 

What dogs really need is a diet that is about 8-10% soluble carbohydrate.  I know the usual 35-45% or more in most expanded dry kibbles, if fed every day, is not the best for a dog–and even worse for a cat.

 

The dog’s GI system is not all that different from ours.  Dogs and people are both mono-gastrics. True, dogs do wolf down their food, and are reported to have a smaller stomach, but dogs can survive fine on a human diet, provided it is a proper human diet.

-       Dr. Patton

Q: Do you have any information regarding the number of times per day to feed a dog.

Someone mentioned to me that feeding 2 lbs once a day will keep the weight on a dog better than 1 lb twice daily. Perhaps you would comment as to whether this would be detrimental to the dog that is worked regularly.

-       Ron

A: Our digestive system (people and dogs) has the capacity to feast and gorge, as well as, go for days with nothing.  But our feeding behavior, digestion and physiology, is happier with intermittent eating over most of the waking day.  One big meal a day will sustain life quite well, but two would be better and three better still. At four, and certainly more than four meals a day, the benefit of increased frequency is not worth the effort. 

One reason for this is one big meal, especially of dry kibble, will raise blood sugar above the trigger threshold for insulin release.  Insulin will promote the blood sugar into the cells and then save the excess as body fat.  The same amount of feed, divided and fed in three or four separate portions, will not cause as much insulin release, as it will not elevate blood sugar as much or as long. 

Even a meal not high in soluble carbohydrate is better offered in more frequent feedings.  The dog’s ancestors did not get every day’s food needs met in 2.5 minutes.  They usually spent hours each day in feeding activity. 

-       Dr. Patton

Q: I was wondering if you could tell me why EDDI (Iodine) is added to your food? I have fed raw for over 20 years and for the most part I have done the raw meaty bones diet before there was a raw meaty bones diet. I have tried other premade raw diets, but I didn’t like the results. I have a new Dutch X Malinios cross, 3 months old – and wanted to find a premade complete feed for her. K-9 Kraving food gets very good reviews from the PSA and ring folks so I thought I would try it out on my new pup, but I was a little concerned about the EDDI especially when you add kelp for iodine already.

-       Lori

 

A: By way of the vitamin mineral premix, we do add iodine from EDDI (ethylene diamine dihydroiodine), an organic source of supplemental iodine.  We add it at a very low level, 0.3 ppm, or 300 parts per billion. (Apart per billion is one minute since Christ was born.)  EDDI is very high in percent iodine, so the added EDDI is still less than 0.4ppm.

EDDI is a long standing iodine supplement, approved in 1975 by AAFCO as an organic supplement for iodine. (AAFCO, 2009, page 383) 

We add iodine, admittedly, mostly as an expedience. You are on the right track when observing we use kelp, which is usually a good source of iodine. However, to satisfy AAFCO, we must either add enough iodine to comply with their guidelines (if we want their approval) or show the ingredients we use provide enough.  This can be done by assaying for iodine in the finished product and providing lab reports proving we have enough iodine.

-       Dr. Patton

Q: On your feeding chart how much does 3-5% of body weight represent food wise?  I have a 60lb dog that has had some medical issues and lost 10lbs.  How much food should he get per day to equal about 1800 calories? How many calories per pound in your various foods? 

Chester is an 11 y/o Airedale, who when had anesthesia for having an eye removed, got acid reflux, which caused Esophogitus and the esophagus strictured.  We have had three balloon dilations, but his opening is still very small and can only eat food the consistency of a mike shake (slurry).  He weighs 60 lbs and his normal weight is 70-73.  We are trying to put weight on him by making his slurry into three feedings a day and a total of 1800 calories.  He had a stomach tube put in, but now he is eating fine on his own if it’s very well blended.  He has no food allergies that I am aware of.

He is used to a raw diet and that is how he has been raised.  Now since the last dilation 3 weeks ago he has been eating high quality, high calorie canned dog food with various other things and supplements.  I would love to get him back on well blended raw.

I would very much appreciate any recommendations or ideas you may have regarding his high calorie diet. Thank you.

 PS–I also have a Wheaten Terrier who loves your food!

-       Karla

A: I’m glad you sent me the story on Chester before I replied. I want to begin the long campaign of educating you about calories in a dog food.  I say long, because the real truth is counterintuitive, even for nutritionists, and hidden from awareness by decades of dogma and wrong policy. 

Let me begin by saying that the caloric content of a dog food is almost of no importance.  Two diets of identical caloric content, fed at the identical rate, can have dramatically different effects on the same dog. This is because the source of the calories is more critical than the amount.  Calories from carbohydrates are more fattening than from fat, even though fat has twice the calories of soluble carbohydrate, chemically. Metabolic efficiency and metabolic rate vary greatly from dog to dog, even litter mates.  Add to this the very real issues of physical activity, age, sex, climate and stress, and one perhaps begins to understand why it is not much help to put caloric content on a pet food label. All it really allows is comparison of one label with another, which is nearly useless (see above).

One of the problems I suspect is that the traditional ideal weight of Chester mentioned (70-73 lb) was the set point for him given his life style and activity rate when healthy (intact stomach).  He probably had some body fat, although did not appear fat.  I would guess this body fat is the 10 lbs he now lacks, and submit that he probably is not all that unhealthy or underactive.  I doubt that his present body condition reflects a measurable loss of muscle mass.  

Frankly, at this point, I would suggest soluble carbohydrate (sugar/starch) be added to his gruel to add body weight.  It will not lead to the body weight gain that would be best (muscle mass) but he will gain weight, as fat. Given food intake is restricted, or said another way, increased amounts of feeding are not possible, soluble carbohydrates are what put on body fat.  Ideally, rigorous exercise and ad lib feeding of a proper diet are what is called for, but this avenue is not available (I assume).

What I would suggest for Chester, in order of preference:

1) Make gruel of K-9 Kraving in a Wearing blender.  Feed him all he will eat as often a day as possible.  Try adding whatever he likes in the way of flavor or taste enhancers to get him to eat more.

2) If this does not lead to weight gain, add highly digestible starch.  I would start with cooked oatmeal at a cup a day, increasing if possible.  If this works, once ideal weight is achieved, reduce the oatmeal to the level that maintains weight.  

3) If oatmeal does not lead to weight gain, use a higher glycemic index starch such as white bread.  Add shredded white bread to the gruel in the blender, up to 1/3 of a loaf a day.  If ideal weight is achieved, reduce the amount of white bread to the level that maintains weight.

PLEASE NOTE: It is important to recognize that the diet that puts on weight (used for recovery) will be too rich for maintenance.

-       Dr. Patton

Q: Why is Tomato Pomice in your K-9 Kraving raw dog food when in the past we (dog handlers) had been told it was an inferior ingredient in dry dog food.

- Anonymous

*K-9 Kraving Representative added: According to Whole Dog Journal tomato pomice has been referred to as a bi-product with very little nutritional value. Often seen in kibble, Tomato Pomice is not as common in raw. So other than being a great source of digest-able fiber and positive pigments, what other attributes quantify its presence in K-9 Kraving?

A:  Tomato Pomice is a source of good plant fiber with high probability of MOS and/or FOS. Plant fiber is the main reason for the benefits of a vegetable diet, along with the flavinoids, and other nutrients like Beta Carotene, Vitamin E and Lycopene. At the level of quality we use, I am happy Bob is willing to buy it for use in K-9 Kraving; allowing more “quality” fiber quicker than with bran or midds. 

-       Dr. Patton